National Interest

The item on last week's program that generated the liveliest response on our website was my interview with New Zealand education research Professor John Hattie about what really makes a difference in schools.

His conclusion was that the key to educational success is not computers or new buildings or national testing or my school websites, probably not school uniforms either, though I didn't ask him about that, the key he says, is high quality teaching.

Paul was excited by John Hattie's ideas. "Having spent my working career as a primary teacher I found John Hattie's view of education inspirational. Hearing talk like that got my educational juices flowing again."

As a parent, Stephen was also impressed. "John Hattie's comments were refreshing, not least because his core argument is that policy needs to be based on what has been found to actually work. He might have added that 'what works' should take the place of ideology or education to serve specific interest groups. Just one aspect I will cite specifically concerns teaching a second language. Despite being schooled in the one area of Sydney, my children have had or are undergoing some teaching of Italian, Japanese and French and when they graduate, they will not be competent in any of them. I would not be alone in suspecting that the reason the state education system doesn't redesign education to have 10 years of schooling in one second language in each of several regions is to not inconvenience the teachers."

Margaret recognises the importance of good teaching but says identifying what makes a good teacher is problematic.

"I have been a teacher all of my adult life and have met many very good teachers. Their success is not really to do with academic study or research, but is due to a talent for understanding children and their needs and their huge potential. A teacher needs to believe in a child and then the child will learn. Teaching is difficult and stressful.Teachers have to be strong. Parents look for immediate targets .The nationwide tests may be loved by parents but the comparisons with other children can destroy a struggling child's selfconfidence. Still most schools try hard and most children learn."

David expresssed a similar view and he thinks we need to get the best teachers to take on the hardest jobs. "I agree that the most valuable teachers are those who can transform lives, and in observing those teachers, I find that they have little in common, except a deep care for the children in their charge. I think far too much time can be spent on trawling through the entrails of their teaching practice, when the effort ought to be going into identifying the best teachers, rewarding them, and placing them in the schools that most need them, thereby advantaging children and providing role models and mentors for other teachers.

"Our current attitude to teacher reward is to attempt to identify superior practice and reward it, without requiring any additional performance from the teacher. The result is that the most admired teachers are able to select the nicest teaching jobs, probably those where they are needed least. The reward is to teach in a nice, well-funded school where the parents are supportive and they are respected. There is no incentive to take on the most difficult work. If we are to have real accountability in this country, it will be the job of principals and their superiors to ensure that the most difficult teaching jobs attract the best salaries and the best teachers."

Don took a different stance. He reckons we demand too much of teachers, expecting them to fix problems not of their making.

"While I agree with much of what John Hattie has to say, he seems to forget that teachers and schools are dealing with children from all sections of society. How children learn is not only about the quality of their teacher, but also about the quality of their parents, and their ability to prepare their children for intergration into society. Teachers and schools have very limited power to control behaviour of children. In government schools the most widely used sanction for bad behaviour is to suspend children, rewarding bad behaviour with a much sought after holiday. Unless we start making parents responsible for the behaviour of their children, schools and teachers will continue to fail these children."

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Presenter

Peter Mares

Producer

Erica Vowles